Episode Transcript

Announcer: This podcast is produced by Benchmark Education.

Kevin Carlson: Every child deserves a teacher who has a thinking partner. That's because the work you do in schools is too complicated and too important to go it alone.
In this episode: “3 Ways to Kick-Start Your Literacy Coaching.”

I'm Kevin Carlson and this is Teachers Talk Shop.

Julie Wright: There's such a beautiful collaboration that happens when principals enjoy a coaching conversation where everyone is working in service of kids, which I think is the reason we are showing up at schools, anyways.

Kevin Carlson: That is Julie Wright. She has over 25 years of experience in education, serving schools and organizations in urban, suburban, and rural communities. She's been a classroom teacher, curriculum specialist, instructional coach, and educational consultant.

In today's episode, Julie shares three small moves to kick-start coaching across the school year that will have big takeaways.

Benchmark Education's Dr. Jennifer Nigh spoke with Julie recently to learn more.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Welcome, Julie. So glad that you're here today.

Julie Wright: Thank you so much. I'm so excited, Jennifer, to be here and to be talking shop about coaching today.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Love it. So Julie, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Julie Wright: Well, I'm probably a teacher's teacher's teacher at heart. I've been in education about thirty-one years, which is hard to believe. And across those roles, I was a classroom teacher at the elementary level, an instructional coach for K-12, a curriculum designer, and most recently, I'm an educational consultant that travels around to different schools across the country, helping teachers get smarter about what kids need. A lot of literacy work going on, but really, literacy across the content areas. It's also an exciting time because schools are in change-making modes, and so I get the opportunity often to talk with principals and instructional coaches and specialists and curriculum directors to figure out the ways that we can best make change and keep kids at the center of the work we're doing. So busy, busy, busy, but love every single minute of it.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Wonderful. Yes. Very busy. Also a jack of all trades. And I like one of the things that you just mentioned, is essentially like, a change agent in a school. And what a time to be influencing that change, because we know a lot is changing in schools, both in how we approach literacy and how we think about it and the instructional implications of that. So a very exciting position to be in and really leads us into our topic today, which is, really, three ways that we can kick-start coaching.

So as we kind of talk about that today, let's start with what does a successful coach— what role does a successful coach play in a school?

Julie Wright: Yeah, I think that the example of being a change agent is so pivotal for coaches because the nice thing about being a coach is that you sort of have a way to gather people and to bring people together because change doesn't happen, or it shouldn't happen, on the back of one person. Building capacity means that everyone is going after things that are going to make the learning community smarter and more sensitive and more loving and more caring, and any other goal that a district or a school or a grade-level team might have, some of the best ways to think about coaching, at least at the onset—whether that's at the beginning of a school year or at the beginning of a quarter, or at the mid-year break, whenever coaching needs either a reset or a kickstart—is to think about coaches being these partners in the work we do in schools. Versus long ago, coaching had a hierarchy to it, right? Coaches knew more than teachers. I try really hard to think about the work I'm doing with teachers, is to think about we're all going to know something more than the other person about something.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: We all bring something to the table.

Julie Wright: Absolutely. And with classroom teachers, they are the experts with the children they serve because they're with them from sunup to sundown, whatever that means, whether it's all day for elementary or during the class period or the instructional block for secondary teachers. And so when we think about coaching and we try to name the ways we're going to work together, we think about being partnerships and working together. Not people we're trying to fix or change, but people we're trying to work beside in service of the kids we serve.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Yeah, that's a really important point, because I think that from that initial kick-start of that relationship, not—that person coming into my classroom, right? You can almost feel sometimes a little bit apprehensive about that. And a little bit—you know, “This is my classroom.” Like, I have a lot of expertise. And you starting that relationship with that understanding that I'm a partner side by side with you in this relationship, I imagine, just makes that whole coaching experience just start off on a better foot.

Julie Wright: It's fun that you name the side by side. One of the things I'm most proud of about the coaching book that Benchmark published with my name on the front cover of it, I feel so blessed because I was so intentional about reminding all educators that the work we do needs to be side by side. Side by side with children. Side by side as principal, coach, and teacher relationships. Because that is how the collaborative piece comes together. It used to be that we would sit across from people, that there's a little bit of a divide when we do that. And so this idea of being side by side, just like we bring teachers into our conversations as coaches—we can't do the work without them—we also can't do that work without kids. They have to be in the mix, as well. So the idea of thinking partnerships—you sort of leaned into that—that's one of my favorite things to think about, because the idea behind that thinking partnership is, for me, relies on a belief statement. And the belief statement is really about the idea that every child deserves to have a teacher who has a thinking partner and that the children, they need us to think deeply. They need us to think about the things that we want them to learn and how we can do that together.

And that idea of a thinking partnership came from the business world back in 2012. I didn't make that up. I just borrowed it and made it into an education term that hopefully people will start using to think about. We're all thinking partners. I mean, we can be a thinking partner with support staff across a school if they can make a connection with a kiddo. A thought partner is just someone who might challenge your thinking, or someone who might ask you to think about other solutions or brainstorm with you different ways to solve a problem or someone that might give some solutions that we haven't thought of. And so that thinking partnership is really valuable when we're starting to think about all the dynamic and complicated problems of practice that live in schools today.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Yeah. And just what a great, you know—back to our point today, is to talk about these three ways to kick-start this relationship. And it just reminded me even yesterday, something in my world is having this meeting with a group of colleagues and we were trying to problem solve and somebody, because we had this, without maybe using the terms, but we had established this way of communicating and collaborating with one another that is essentially like a thought partnership that you're describing. And I thought maybe I had all the right ideas, but somebody, because they were able to push back in a collaborative way, said something that I was like, “Oh, that's a good idea, that is much better than what this meeting started with,” that forwarded this conversation, and at the end of the day, it's going to get us better results. And being able to do that with educators that result, then, in student learning, is the ultimate goal. So that's fantastic.

Julie Wright: Well, and you know, we talk all the time about teachers. They get out of bed every morning to try to do good by kids. The majority of—I've never met a teacher that does it differently than that. They're built to help. And so they're not naturally getting out of bed and saying, “Boy, I wish someone gets up today and fixes me,” right? Like, teachers show up to be stronger and smarter in service of kids. And so I think the idea of the thinking partnership, I meet it in the most genuine way possible. I do think we're all smarter together, and I do think we have different assets and different skill sets and different knowledge bases. And when we put all of that together and we just think—it's like you were saying in your meeting—it kind of sets you up for success because you have more ideas than you might have had otherwise.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Yes, absolutely. So let's unpack this thinking partnership just a little bit more. So we're talking about the high-level value of it. But when you're having this thinking partnership, what are some of the topics that you might cover with your thinking partner or teacher that you're working side by side with?

Julie Wright: I got a little smile when you said that because it's so, the fun part about all of it is there's nothing stopping you from any problem or practice, challenge, solution you're looking for. It could be something from curricular planning to classroom design. It could be about getting ready to talk with a parent. It could be about thinking about transitions within the classroom across the day. It could be about supporting students when they're not in your classroom. Whatever is at the top of teachers' minds in relation to students is really the reason to have a thinking partner. And having diverse thinking partners is super-important because different ways of thinking can impact your thinking in really positive ways.

Kevin Carlson: After the break: The importance of professional relationships. Stay with us.

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Dr. Jennifer Nigh: You mentioned curricular planning, and I know that that's such an important topic because educators—especially right now, as there's some shifts or learnings in, related to pedagogy and research around the Science of Reading and whatnot that may be rolling out new curriculum. So what is your role as a coach or a thought partner in helping to roll out new curriculum?

Julie Wright: That's such an important topic for coaches across the nation. And it's even more so for people like department chairs and team leaders. And that conversation stems around curriculum directors as well, and even principals and assistant principals. Everyone has their eye on it because there is a lot of change going on. And change is not new in education, it's just a new wave of change, with pretty high stakes for both teachers and students alike, as well as schools. And so some of the nice parts about a thinking partnership is we can be imagining who might be an expert in something, or who might be able to shed some light on something. And it doesn't always have to be the coach. So I think of myself as a coach, I lean on Joellen Killion and her work from over a decade ago where she talks about, like, ten roles of a coach, and I think it's a really nice list to be able to think about. I'm not going to mention all of them. But to answer your question about curriculum, sometimes, as when you roll out curriculum, it might, for someone who's not part of that process, might seem easy. Like, you open the materials and you open up the stuff and you—

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Read it out loud, yeah!

Julie Wright: Read it and you do it and you just follow it. It's super complicated because kids are complicated, and I mean that in a positive [way]. Human beings are complicated. And so we have different needs and we come at things very differently. And so sometimes as a coach, if I'm leaning on Killion's ten roles, sometimes I'm a resource provider where I'll connect some resources, old resources that we have that we're still going to use to new resources in curriculum, that we're going to begin to use. Or maybe we have the ability to pick and choose because something is a resource. And so we want to pick what's needed for the kids in our care. Sometimes I act as a curriculum specialist. That's sometimes what a coach does, even though they have the role of coach or the role of facilitator. Oftentimes we also become that curriculum specialist or that classroom supporter. That classroom supporter could be supporting on the inside of the classroom, showing and modeling and doing. It can also mean you can support on the outside of the classroom by thinking through, role playing or thinking through how someone might approach using that curriculum. And so all of those things for me that a coach might do become these pathways to be that catalyst for a change that we mentioned earlier.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: That's great. So you're really conveying that the coach is a very dynamic role, and it's been a while since I've been in the classroom, but it's refreshing to see how, it sounds like it has evolved much more than, like you said, kind of the head of the table or coming in and, “I'm the expert and I'm going to kind of tell you what to do.” And that goes back to your first kick-start, right? Is that establishing that thought partnership. So that's really great to hear.

What's your next kick start to start that successful relationship? So we got thought partnership, what's the next one?

Julie Wright: So I would say that taking the time to actually develop relationships is something that in our busy lives as educators, we skip over. It feels like there's never enough time. It's never on our side. And so we often, myself included, make these assumptions that we know each other or that we'll get to know each other across time. I don't think we place enough value on building those relationships and keeping with it. You know, these relationships evolve over time. Our relationships with students, getting to know students, their interests, their passions, their worries. The same happens with adults. Because we as adults in schools, we should think of ourselves as adult learners at all time, whether we're learning about students or learning about new curriculum. Regardless of what the thing is we're learning about, we are in always learning mode. And so a lot of times I think that we don't always know one another, we often don't know why we're meeting together. There's lack of clarity. And then there's that the time issue is never on our side. So developing relationships with folks is super, super important.

So as a coach, I remind myself that there's, you can have get-to-know-you ideas. You can have little icebreakers. Those work. But there are other ways to build relationships. And that is, to remind people that we're going to keep the main thing the main thing. There are so many things we can focus on. So keeping the main thing the main thing is often what builds teachers' trust in you. It also helps everyone know why they're coming together. Sometimes as a coach, my job is to eliminate those time stealers. So taking some things off people's plates, if I can, if it makes sense to do so, because then they can focus on the main thing. That sometimes happens.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: And what a great way, right? Like, we all live very busy lives. So if somebody's coming in to help you in a variety of ways but is willing in the right context to take something off your plate, that's a great way to forward a relationship.

Julie Wright: Very much so. And that can look a lot of different ways, which maybe we'll get to today if our conversation heads that direction. And then the idea of being able to, if needed, to have norms or shared agreements around the ways we're going to work together. All those things help us build relationships with people without it always just being that quick little icebreaker.

However, I'd like to put a plug in for icebreakers because I think when people can get to know the personal side and the professional side of one another in appropriate ways for the time that we have—we don't need to spend a whole planning time doing that—it helps break down those barriers between people because we end up having a different type of respect for people when we feel like we are one step closer to knowing them. And so I like to say sometimes, that's worth that five minutes. If everyone can smile and laugh and have a little bit of a moment, I think that's one of the nicest mindfulness moments we could ever have, if we can bring some joy to the work.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Well, and it makes people relatable too, right? If you take those two minutes to find out somebody likes to travel or somebody, you know, whatever's unique and important to them, and you can make that connection, I imagine that that, again, kind of just creates that trust there that you're talking about and really just further kick-starts that relationship in a much better way.

So we're talking about building the trust and establishing the thinking partnership, taking the time to do that. And we'll get to your third in a minute. But I want to think about the reality that those are wonderful things, but that doesn't eliminate that there's sometimes some challenges, right? So what are some of the common challenges that you face when really establishing this partnership, even when those things are in place?

Julie Wright: I think that some of the challenges that stick out in my mind is having the—I have a tie going on in my head. It's often clarity. People hear things different ways and times. So maybe we'll talk about both of those equally. There are oftentimes too many initiatives, and I don't say that as a criticism of education. Our education system is complicated. And so sometimes it feels like there are too many initiatives to help, in order to know what the focus should be to help teachers. And so as a coach, sometimes we need to create that clarity. And the way that I do that is through co-planning. So in order to make it so we don't just have talk in the air, we're not just talking about ideas, we take some of those initiatives that matter the most, the directives that have been given to us, the things we know that we need to do because of the curriculum or the content or the standards, and we put those into action by co-planning. So when we're at the table, I'll call that the co-planning table, we'll spend some time thinking about the knowledge and the skills that we want kids to know, along with the strategies that will help them be smarter and stronger about whatever content we're planning, and then we'll try to name some instructional practices that make a difference for kids and make a difference for us as teachers.

But sometimes in order to do that, we have to make decisions about how to make change. So if you're going to add something, that might be a really important thing to do, but we might also need to eliminate something else. And so I look at it as a framework of saying when we're co-planning, we might say, “What are we going to add? What are we going to do more often? What are we going to do differently? What are we going to do less often? And what's something that we might eliminate?” And we don't have to do all of those. But those are some avenues for me as a coach to be able to ask the question. I'm not going to tell teachers what the answers to those are. We're going to do that together, and I'm going to lean on them to be the expert of their classroom, to know what's the right move. And then, of course, if they need my help in making that decision, that's what I'm there for, as well. So that's kind of the co-planning side.

Kevin Carlson: After the break: Time and some habits to make the most of it. Stay with us.

Mid-roll announcer: The work we do in schools is too complicated and dynamic to go it alone. With her book, Side-by-Side Instructional Coaching, author Julie Wright delivers an essential resource for instructional coaches. Side-by-Side Instructional Coaching presents ten habits instructional coaches should have to be collaborative leaders and bring out the strengths of the teachers they serve. These include: develop relationships, communicate plans, help teachers set goals, and prioritize across the year.

Julie Wright: I wrote this book because every student deserves a teacher who has a thinking partner.

Mid-roll announcer: Find out more about this and other titles at PD Essentials dot com. Go teach brilliantly.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: There's just not enough time in the day, and I think we all feel like that in our personal and professional lives. So you know, I sympathize that that can be a challenge or a barrier. So let's talk about that time. What are some things that you do as a coach to try to overcome that?

Julie Wright: Yeah, I think—I'll back up one step, because I think it's valuable to do so as a coach. Anyone who's leading or facilitating—and it can be outside of education, it doesn't have to just be in education, but I'm going to stick to education for the purposes of our conversation. Everyone has habits, right? Everyone has things they do on a regular basis to move something forward and to move something sideways or to eliminate something. We have habits that we lean on. And so in my side-by-side coaching book, the idea is that I named ten habits. Now in reality I probably have thirty-five. Some of them are just things that are just so small that it didn't actually make the real estate pages in a book, but it's not to discredit them. And so I often work with coaches where I'm the coach of the coach. And I'll say, “Before we talk about my habits, just name some of yours. What are some of your go-to habits that you know you're doing that make a difference for not only students, but teachers and colleagues across your school learning community?” And I think that's a really healthy tidbit for coaches to think about because they probably do some really important things that are habits that they know are making a difference and they just don't necessarily give it credit. Well, once we name it as a positive, we should keep doing it and we should name when we want to do that.

And so one of my go-to habits is, especially when it comes to, like, being efficient and effective with time, is to co-plan, is to be of service, as I say. And one way I work to be of service is to be in the classroom with teachers because that's where the work is anyways. And so, for me, it could be about observing and thinking about what it is in classrooms that teachers need.

So the coaching model from long ago was coaches would go into a classroom and they would observe a teacher.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: And tell you what you need to do differently, right?

Julie Wright: Yeah, right? And I'm certain that there are coaches that still are charged to do that, but I think those days are long gone. And I would highly recommend that you throw that practice out because I think we get more capacity-building moves when we work in those thinking partnerships and when we work together to be in service of kid growth.

So for me, I might do some co-planning—we just talked about things we can do with the co-planning table. And then I might go into the classroom with a shared agreement with the teachers that I'm going to co-host a small group, or I'm going to co-teach a mini-lesson where the teacher and I are going to do it together, or that I help assess students, or that I might pull kids aside and confer with them to help them with their reading or their writing or their math or their science or their social studies, whatever the content is we're working on. But to be that extra lens. And the key for me as a coach is to make sure we have a plan beforehand, like a shared agreement, and then a follow-up after, so that we can share the things that worked, the things that were clunky, what we might do next. For me, that's that cycle of continuing the coaching, which is the hardest thing for coaches, is to keep your dance card full. And that's one of my favorite things to do, is like, if you're of service, the hope is people will be like, “Are you coming back tomorrow?”

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Yes.

Julie Wright: That's the best for a coach, because then, you have legs to some of the work that you're trying to do. And that’s—

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: And that you've established that relationship.

Julie Wright: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: That's great. So we know we're establishing ourselves as a thought partnership. We know that we're dedicating the time to build that relationship so that we can overcome those challenges and establish those habits so that we meet our goals. What's that third recommendation for kick-starting this work?

Julie Wright: One of the things that is super vital to all of this work is to make sure that you have time to meet with your principal and to have time to have the support that you need. And that doesn't mean that you're meeting to give a play-by-play of everything that has happened. It means that you're meeting regularly to have a consistent and concise protocol, to be able to meet with the heads of the school, the leadership, to be able to say, “These are the things that we're working on, here are the problems of practice that we're approaching, here are the goals and here are the strengths of our work together.” To be able to say—kind of a status report, if you will. And I suggest that we do it every week or every other week, but not for such lengthy times that make it unhealthy and unsustainable because I think what happens is, because then we can't do it, then we reschedule it, and then the next thing you know, four weeks have gone by. At twenty to twenty-five minutes of a really powerful meeting, where we do a quick check-in, we talk about the highlights, we focus on an area for the week going ahead, thinking about celebrations potentially, problems of practice. And I always try to remind coaches that when I'm meeting with principals, I try to end with that next step or the thing we're going to do next.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Call to action, right?

Julie Wright: Yeah.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: “What's happening?” It's not ending.

Julie Wright: Yeah. And I listed a lot of topics there. I always say, “Pick one or two.” You don't have to feel like you have to cover a mountain. The work is continuing. And if you're ever not sure, if you're a principal—because they're busy, that's the other thing. You know, everyone is—

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: The time issue again, right? The reality.

Julie Wright: Exactly. Everyone in schools are busy, but principals are, I would say, extra busy because they've got a lot on their plate that not everyone understands that's happening, I guess, behind the scenes. And so if you are interested in not just talking but showing, invite your principal to join you for part of the day and just let them be a part of your process. They actually end up loving it.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: I love that too. I love that recommendation because I think there's such power in making sure that the administrator is part of the process, the initiative, the work that's being done. Because then you're creating a culture of change, you're not just making change in one classroom, which is great. That's absolutely a huge step.

But when you can create that culture of change and lead that culture of change as a group of individuals all working towards that same goal, there's so much more power there, and there's so much more likelihood that the goals that have been established are going to get met. And what you just communicated was, that coach is kind of serving as that—the moving all these pieces around and making sure that we're all working towards that. And I love that you included administrators or principals in that work too. So that makes a huge difference.

Julie Wright: Well, they can often be some of the greatest thinking partners. And we we sometimes forget that. They have a multifaceted role, as many of us do. But when they're a thinking partner, they're not being your evaluator, they're being your thinking partner. And there's such a beautiful collaboration that happens when principals take off that evaluative hat, which they most of the time they're not wearing anyways, but just sit around a table or enjoy a coaching conversation where everyone is working in service of kids, which I think is the reason we are showing up at schools anyways. So it's a natural fit.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Absolutely. Well, wonderful, Julie. Thank you so much for sharing and enlightening us on the three tips to kick-start your coaching relationship. I know all of our listeners who find themselves in a coaching position—or really, it's great recommendations for all of us—come to our work as thought partners and dedicate the time to getting to know one another and building those relationships and being inclusive and, in your example, bringing in those administrators to kind of help do that, work together so that we can meet our goals. So thank you so much for sharing that. Any final words before we wrap up today's conversation?

Julie Wright: Just go where the work is. The work is in classrooms. Even if you're working with teachers in coaching settings where that has not been the case, get into those classrooms. Be a part of that learning environment. Be of service there. There's real value in co-planning at the table with teachers outside of the classroom and then putting that into action. Co-teaching has this old definition where it meant you were each teaching a lesson. It doesn't have to be that way. You can be in the classroom and be of service in so many different ways. If you can dream it up and it's a shared agreement between you and the teacher, you can do really great things right inside that classroom. And coaching sort of happens magically in those environments because we're watching each other, we're getting smarter about kids. And the best part is when you look at kids and they know that there are multiple adults in the classroom that care about them, only good things happen.

Dr. Jennifer Nigh: Great point and a wonderful way to end our conversation today. So Julie Wright, author, educational consultant, author of the PD Essentials book Side-by-Side Instructional Coaching—thank you so very much for sharing your insights today, and we hope to have you back very soon for part two.

Julie Wright: Thank you so much.

Kevin Carlson: Thank you, Julie Wright. Thank you, Dr. Jennifer Nigh. And thank you for listening to Teachers Talk Shop.

If you are new to coaching, or a seasoned coach who wants a restart, Julie Wright's book, Side-by-Side Instructional Coaching, is for you. It will help you feel confident in your coaching. It will help you take on the task of shaping a school community. And it will help you focus on helping all children meet their highest potential. Hurry over to PD Essentials dot com to get your copy today.

We will have part two of our conversation with Julie Wright in our next episode. Please visit our website to learn more at Teachers Talk Shop dot com.

For Benchmark Education, I'm Kevin Carlson.